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| What classifies as "rape?" | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 10 2014, 04:34 AM (1,495 Views) | |
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Oct 10 2014, 04:34 AM Post #1 |
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I was taking a survey for a sexual assault prevention society on campus, and some interesting questions popped up. I was wondering what your thoughts on them were. I felt like some of them were kind of strange. The survey made me feel guilty about things that I'd never really thought about before. Here are some examples. 1. Do you always ask for verbal consent before having sex with a partner, even if the relationship is long term? My answer was no, and I'm not sure how to feel about that. 2. Would you have sex with your partner even if he or she was drunk? I had to think about this one, but I was forced to put yes out of honesty. 3. If both parties are drunk it can't be rape. Strongly agree, agree, disagree, or strongly disagree? I know the correct answer is to disagree, but I felt a little weird thinking back on a couple of times when this actually might have happened to me. You can't really consent while drunk, can you? But what's the line between consent and non-consent here? If both parties are okay with it, is it perfectly fine even though one person may have been significantly drunker than the other? This one is weird for me. 4. Imagine you're at a party. You see a girl, Jennifer, and a boy, Tom. Both are drunk. Tom is messing around with Jennifer by touching her butt, poking her boobs, rubbing up on her, etc. Jennifer is laughing, but keeps pushing his hands away. It is obvious that she is uncomfortable. Would you intervene? And how wrong is this situation? It hurts to say that I probably wouldn't intervene because the situation hasn't really progressed to a serious enough point. That and I'd probably be drinking as well. 5. Men often rape women or engage in unwanted sexual behavior due to their sex drive or drunkenness. Strongly agree, agree, disagree, strongly disagree? I think that this can be true, but it is certainly not always the case. Thoughts? Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Oct 10 2014, 04:34 AM.
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Oct 10 2014, 07:04 AM Post #2 |
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Well I agree with pretty much all of your answers, but to answer the question, any sexual act without consent, I'd consider rape. I wouldn't consider sex with no "verbal consent" rape in that case. If a man or women just started making out with their partner or whatever, without asking, that partner could simply move away, or make it clear that they don't want sex. I do think drunk people can consent, just not remember it the next morning? That's just an assumption though. |
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| Rockman | Oct 10 2014, 09:52 AM Post #3 |
hoighty-toighty
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Consent is important and necessary 100% of the time. Even in close relationships and marriage. There also non verbal cues that constitute consent when you are with someone long enough. For instance, my girlfriend gives me the head nod towards the room and then starts walking off towards it. I either have the choice to not go, or to go. I have made both choices before, though I had to explain why not when I didn't go once. Long story. To answer those points 1. Do you always ask for verbal consent before having sex with a partner, even if the relationship is long term? Always and forever. If you actually care about the other person and their feelings, you'll ask for consent. If you don't, then you're probably engaging in an activity in which will come back to bite you in the a*** or hurt that person. 2. Would you have sex with your partner even if he or she was drunk? No. And it depends on how drunk and if they are capable of consenting or not, I answer this more thoroughly in question 3. I know my ex was so drunk on occasions that she didn't even know who I was or where she was. Not to mention she was barfing everywhere. I was spending more time taking care of her barf and making sure she was alright than I was thinking about sex. Again, going back to caring about the other person's thoughts and feelings before engaging. 3. If both parties are drunk it can't be rape. Strongly agree, agree, disagree, or strongly disagree? Strongly disagree. It can be. People make stupid decisions when they are drunk. Do you care about the feelings of the other person when you are drunk so as to not engage in rape? Probably not. Don't even consider it. However, I have specifically gotten drunk with a person alone in our own apartment and then had sex that was specifically asked for. There was no grey line there because that was the plan from the beginning. Actually that has happened more than once. 4. Imagine you're at a party. You see a girl, Jennifer, and a boy, Tom. Both are drunk. Tom is messing around with Jennifer by touching her butt, poking her boobs, rubbing up on her, etc. Jennifer is laughing, but keeps pushing his hands away. It is obvious that she is uncomfortable. Would you intervene? And how wrong is this situation? I don't feel comfortable seeing other men do it either. I've always told my friends that they need to cool it. I've been in this situation before, and unfortunately i've been in this situation before at work. The dude was heading directly for and HR violation and he wasn't even thinking about it. If I didn't know the guy, i'd find someone who was and tell them to do the same. I would probably leave the party if nothing got resolved. I don't want to be a part of a group of people who are going around sexually harassing others. I don't do it, my friends don't do it, and i'm not about to start having friends that do it. 5. Men often rape women or engage in unwanted sexual behavior due to their sex drive or drunkenness. Strongly agree, agree, disagree, strongly disagree? Answering this question in the form of 1234 is almost like baiting. On one hand if you say strongly agree, then you're saying that all men are pigs when they have a high sex drive or are drunk. On the other hand, a strongly disagree ignores the fact that men with high sex drives think of sex or don't act different when drunk. Both of which are untrue most of the time. The real answer is, men often rape women when they are raised in an environment that explains to them that women are below them, and not equals. When men do not see women as equals they also do not care about the wants, needs, or feelings of that person. They are being selfish and not thinking of the consequences of their actions towards that person, and what it holds for their future. Rape is one of the most selfish things a person can do. |
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| + Clearin | Oct 10 2014, 10:15 AM Post #4 |
 
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No, doing it without consent is exactly what rape is.
Well I don't think it's rape if they consent, but it becomes a bit of a moral thing regardless. I'm not sure if I'd do it myself, it depends how drunk they are.
As long as they both consent, strongly agree. I hate when people use being drunk as an excuse for doing stupid s***. It was your own choice to drink so much that you apparently can't even make common sense decisions then as far as I'm concerned anything you do in that state is your own choice too. To be super literal though, it can be rape if both parties are drunk, one of them just needs to not consent.
I'm usually a bit of an idiot when it comes to reading people who are acting in a way that they don't feel, so I likely wouldn't notice anything is wrong if she was laughing. If I did get suspicious, I'd likely go about it cautiously, like walking up to them and asking if they're both okay in a casual sort of voice, since I'd look like an idiot if she was just being playful. And I think the situation is wrong for both people involved, the male for conducting sexual assault, and the girl for not making it obvious that she isn't comfortable with it to both him and everyone around them.
Disagree. It happens, but I don't think it happens 'often'. |
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| + Steve | Oct 10 2014, 10:50 AM Post #5 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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I feel the questions were a bit close minded and overly sensitive, you shouldn't feel guilty about it they don't cover every situation at all, close couples can initiate sex with a mere look it's not like sex between everyone needs to be some formal agreement  1. Do you always ask for verbal consent before having sex with a partner, even if the relationship is long term? I don't see how you need verbal consent 100% of the time if it's a close partner, you usually know how to get each other in the mood and the pants are off soon  Of course there's a line, you can't run in with a balaclava and a crowbar, chuck them on the bed and have your way with them without saying anything but you don't need a verbal agreement every time. 2. Would you have sex with your partner even if he or she was drunk? Depends, if I was drunk I'd do my best not to in case there was any accidents as well as how drunk they are. It's not like being drunk makes you a completely different person you can still make rational sometimes skewed decisions like "I want to have sex" might when drunk be couple with "in the car park!" Still the same person and they just want sex, wouldn't do it in a car park of course but with my girlfriend unless she was heavily drunk is it that wrong? With a stranger I wouldn't though, there's no emotional bond there so that they suggested it is iffy. But also no because they might come out and say I raped them later, it's mainly a stupid thing to do for that reason some people are complete a***** and act like nothing is their fault when they were drunk when it's just not true. People can still function while drunk they don't just swap bodies with someone and ruin each others lives if they make a bad choice influenced or not they still made the choice. 3. If both parties are drunk it can't be rape. Strongly agree, agree, disagree, or strongly disagree? Ehm...strongly disagree, you can still rape someone when you're drunk what kind of question is that? I'm not sure this survey understands how alcohol affects people in many ways not just completely throws decision making out the window... It can still be a rape but it can still be consensual depends on how drunk someone is and what kind of drunk they are some people get horny when drunk, others tired, angry, energetic etc Completely situational. 4. Imagine you're at a party. You see a girl, Jennifer, and a boy, Tom. Both are drunk. Tom is messing around with Jennifer by touching her butt, poking her boobs, rubbing up on her, etc. Jennifer is laughing, but keeps pushing his hands away. It is obvious that she is uncomfortable. Would you intervene? And how wrong is this situation? Depends on the laugh, she might be scared on enjoying it. Just because she's pushing him away doesn't mean she doesn't want it, maybe she has some class and doesn't want fondled in front of tons of people? It's not "obvious that she's uncomfortable" in that way at all. That situation I'd keep a watch on, if nothing happens between them and later when she leaves he follows her home, then that's a worry. 5. Men often rape women or engage in unwanted sexual behavior due to their sex drive or drunkenness. Strongly agree, agree, disagree, strongly disagree? Agree but again situational, depends on the man and what kind of drunk he is plus how much of a bastard he is alcohol doesn't make you want to stick your d*** in everything consent or not. Sometimes it's not even anything to do with sex it's a power/dominance thing not all men are constantly like drug addicts looking for their next fix... I feel like this survey was written by a woman who's had bad sexual experiences and thinks all men are destined to rape someone eventually, as though we're all time bombs, I actually find it kind of insulting the way it talks about it, it's like a man is supposed to take the test and someone is supposed to sit opposite them giving them an angry look  Nothing to feel upset over if you've been in some of these situations, except 4 if it was happening in a really rough way. Just because people are drunk doesn't mean they can't give informed consent, it may not always be wise to have sex with a drunk person or while you're drunk but that alone doesn't make it rape you have only yourself to blame for any bad decisions you make while drunk but not every decision is going to be a bad one. |
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| + Pelador | Oct 10 2014, 11:02 AM Post #6 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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I think it's quite simple. If they say no or try to keep you away from them but you carry on anyway then it's rape. |
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| + Pointer | Oct 10 2014, 11:24 AM Post #7 |
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1. Now always but often 2. If she was drunk no...but I was a bit drunk 3 Alcohol can not be blamed ....it is rape 4 It is not that serious I d leave them be 5 They have some psyhological problems which led to this ..so I disagree and agree at the same time Edited by Pointer, Oct 10 2014, 11:25 AM.
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Oct 10 2014, 01:16 PM Post #8 |
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The first two questions were the ones that made me feel guilty. I wondered if I was doing something wrong by not asking for verbal consent every time. I know my partner well enough to understand the looks she gives me, so I don't really feel the need to ask "want to have sex?" every time. She usually does the "let's go to my bedroom" thing, anyway. As far as partners getting drunk, I've done it both ways. Back in my stupid days, I got drunk at a party and had sex without consent from either person and obviously regretted it later. Sex with strangers is pretty horrible in my opinion. There was another instance where both of us decided beforehand to have sex, so that was fine. With my current partner, we don't really like getting drunk, so it's not a big problem. The only times we've been drunk, we've either decided beforehand to have sex or decided not to. If there was no consent beforehand, it would depend on how drunk she was. I don't want to have sex with someone who's wasted. And I agree about the way the survey was written. It sounded accusing. Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Oct 10 2014, 01:17 PM.
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| + Steve | Oct 10 2014, 04:04 PM Post #9 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Yeah I think a good portion of people who have sex with strangers while drunk regret it, but that definitely doesn't make it rape they might have wished the guy/girl said no but they themselves still said yes. Unless they're totally wasted I can't see how that can be considered rape, lot of people go out with the goal of getting drunk and having sex how is it possible they're being raped? As empty and meaningless as the sex would be it's still consensual and might just be what the person wanted. One thing I'm not sure on is forcing people in to wanting it. Like as a couple rubbing someone's areas to get them in the mood, what's that considered as? Strictly as a couple/frequent sex partners so not the same as question 4. Happens in my relationship a lot both ways, it doesn't feel wrong but I suppose some observers would scream rape because one person initially didn't want it. I don't think it's bad, I can see why it could be considered so but sex can be a good pick-me-up. Better than getting drunk or doing drugs to take the edge off all the time. |
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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| EMIYA | Oct 10 2014, 04:19 PM Post #10 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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I highly disagree with #1. To me, your actions speak louder than your words. If your partner is pushing you away, that's your cue to stop. At any point your partner can say, "Sorry, I'm just not in the mood tonight." and that's your cue to stop. You can make non-verbal cues without directly saying "Hey, do you mind if we have sex tonight?" And likewise, your partner can make non-verbal cues or verbal cues telling you how they feel. It's not like someone gets touched and then suddenly they get paralyzed and can't say no anymore because the other personally didn't verbally ask. I mean let me ask this. Do you verbally ask your partner "Hey do you want to hug?" do you always ask "Hey do you want to hold hands?" You can even do it in terms of friendships. Two guys meet up and give a classic bro-hug or something. Do they go around saying "Hey man you want to have a bro-hug?" of course not. We give off non-verbal cues to each other. For example if I want to hug someone, I stretch out my arms. I don't need to verbally express what I'm about to do. And sex is more than just the action itself, its the cues before it. You may start out with holding hands, then hugging, then kissing, then etc. And at any point you and your partner feel uncomfortable you can make that point. So in the end, while asking verbal consent probably won't hurt, I don't feel its necessary especially in a long term relationship. I think you can easily express yourselves in non-verbal ways and again, if it gets out of hand, either partner can step up and tell the other to stop. If you try to hug your partner and they back away, or they say no, that's your cue. |
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| Mihawk | Oct 10 2014, 04:34 PM Post #11 |
 
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1. Do you always ask for verbal consent before having sex with a partner, even if the relationship is long term? No it's unrealistic unless you're in a relationship where that could be normal (a past victim etc). 2. Would you have sex with your partner even if he or she was drunk? Can't think of a reason why not unless there was verbal or some cue otherwise. When getting drunk you make the choice of making bad future decisions, and if sex is one of them (unless you made the decision otherwise in the drunk state) then the blame is on your earlier choice of getting drunk 3. If both parties are drunk it can't be rape. Strongly agree, agree, disagree, or strongly disagree? It can be if there's resistance. But typically no, I can't think of a reason why it would be unless we think of one party as a default victim before hand. 4. Imagine you're at a party. You see a girl, Jennifer, and a boy, Tom. Both are drunk. Tom is messing around with Jennifer by touching her butt, poking her boobs, rubbing up on her, etc. Jennifer is laughing, but keeps pushing his hands away. It is obvious that she is uncomfortable. Would you intervene? And how wrong is this situation? Depends on my confidence level in the party, how well I know the people etc. And obviously if it looked wrong. I know you're supposed to intervene if you see something wrong but I find that a bit unrealistic on my part. 5. Men often rape women or engage in unwanted sexual behavior due to their sex drive or drunkenness. Strongly agree, agree, disagree, strongly disagree? Can't disagree since it's true statistically (at least in comparison to women, but often is obviously false if it isn't relative). Personally don't think we should look at it that way since it isn't helping towards gender neutrality. A crime is a crime and a criminal is a criminal. |
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Oct 10 2014, 05:02 PM Post #12 |
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I find that the majority of the time, verbally telling someone to stop is harder than physically telling them to stop. If someone is pressuring you to have sex, it's easier to push them away than to tell them no. Sometimes a simple "no" isn't taken very seriously, but getting physical will usually stop them unless they fully intend on harming you. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Oct 10 2014, 09:44 PM Post #13 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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The issue with this whole consent thing is that it's extremely informal. There's no third party to keep track of what is "consensual" and what isn't, therefore any university that employs the tactic can't actually regulate it. Both parties being drunk constituting as "rape" to me is simply deflecting from the real problem entirely. The real problem is people allowing themselves to get so drunk to the point where they find themselves incapable of making self-aware decisions. It seems to me that "agreeing" with this in anyway is simply rewarding a person's lack of self-control with a means of claiming them as the ones being victimized. In other words, it's your fault that you got that sh*tfaced to begin with. Why should someone else be held accountable for your own inability to control the behavior that got you into that state in the first place? It's completely different if one person is drunk, and the other isn't. The one who isn't obviously doesn't care about your consent, therefore I do believe that they should be held accountable. I understand that it's not their responsibility to babysit drunks, but they actually have the sense of mind to say no. If it's a drunk guy with a sober girl, than that's where it gets dicey. I'm not trying to hold a double standard, but it has to be addressed that men are generally more physically imposing than women, not only that, but they have invasive body parts that play a key role in sex. Would that be considered rape? Probably. It's a bit difficult to have sex with a guy if he's not aroused, even though most cases of men being raped usually involves anal sex. |
 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| Rockman | Oct 11 2014, 12:56 AM Post #14 |
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hoighty-toighty
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I can't tell if you pointed this out or not, even after reading your post like 4 times, but I just wanted to say this. People shouldn't be afraid of being raped every time they are interested in getting s*** faced. People should be able to choose to get s*** faced without other consequences that follow rape. So who does that start with to ensure that such a thing doesn't occur? |
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Oct 11 2014, 01:57 AM Post #15 |
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People need to have the maturity to make decisions and not go back on them later, which is why it's always a good idea to 1) decide what you want to do and what you don't want to do before getting drunk and 2) having a buddy system if you're worried about your own self-control. This is the only reason I can really understand why the drinking age is 21 instead of 18 (even though teenagers still drink anyway). |
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